Private Members Motion on Seanad Reform - 11th March 2009

Private Members Motion on Seanad Reform - 11th March 2009
Senator David Norris: I thank Senator Coffey for sharing time with me and I welcome the Minister to the House. It is very appropriate he should be here as he was chair of the committee and I sat at the first meeting. I do not agree with my colleague, Senator O’Toole, as I do not think anything very much will be done. The Minister will recollect that the first item on the agenda, this scoping nonsense, was an attack on university seats. The Minister was open about that and he changed it slightly. This is always what happens and it is complete and utter rubbish. Nobody in this House actually believes it. Perhaps it will happen, but it will not happen because people here believe it, because nobody does and that is what they will say privately.
I will not vote for this motion because of the inclusion of the councillors. This is what makes it a rotten borough really. It is highly dangerous and is totally undemocratic. That does not mean that I do not hold my colleagues in high regard as I hold them in very high regard just as in the same way I support population control. I do not think anybody should have more than two children but as for my friends who have five children, they cannot be wished away. I do not wish these people away but I wish to God they had never been procreated and the method by which they were procreated is obscene in the extreme.
All sides of this House put forward the idea and it was beginning to be implemented. A special committee of Seanad Éireann was set up to look into the situation of the renditions at Shannon Airport. This was scuppered because local councillors down in County Clare put the squeeze on the Government parties and the committee was abolished. This shows a distortion of the power through local parish pump politics and that is the main reason I object to the motion.
The only thing good about the university seats is the method of election. We are the only democratic bit in the whole bloody place. There is an electorate of 50,000 in our constituency and 100,000 or so in Senator O’Toole’s constituency. We all refer to these things as ours; it is a constituency in which I stand. We have real constituencies. I do not think it is a good idea to multiply the numbers by one thousand in order to give the public the impression that there is some kind of democracy here. Unlike Senator O’Toole, I would be in favour of giving more power to Seanad Éireann. Why not? It is absolute nonsense that we are spancilled like babies and we are not allowed to spend money. Why not? How many times have we put down proposals here in this House and we have been ruled out of order because it would create a charge on the Exchequer. That is absolute insulting nonsense.

Acting Chairman: The Senator has run out of time.

Senator David Norris: With the way in which Governments have run the finances for years, we could not be any worse at the very least. I think we should certainly look at this idea.
I am not taking any lessons about democracy from either side of this House. I have sat in this House when every single one of the named officers of this House had been rejected at least once, and several of them twice, by the electorate and then they were popped back in by the Taoiseach. I do not think anybody in that situation is in a position to give lectures on democracy. Whatever its faults, whatever its difficulties, Seanad Éireann does a good job in revising legislation and that is what we are here for. We have found flaws in legislation and we have introduced and amended legislation. Ideas have been canvassed in this House of which the other House was notoriously shy.
We have good debates, and we should have them more often, about, for example, the North of Ireland. I thought it was a mistake in the old days when we were told we could not speak about the North for danger of inflaming the situation; it was already inflamed. I would like the opportunity to take on ideas such as those expressed by Senator Harris who accused the rest of us of posturing. Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile is my answer to that. He is a very good posturer, a very powerful posturer, and his physical posture tells one a lot as does the wonderful expression in his voice, but the ideas were dangerous in the extreme. He talked about introducing internment. I would have liked an opportunity to reply and say that is the wrong way to go. Despite the accusations of posturing, I am very glad we had the opportunity in this House to express the grief of this country at the shocking events and the abhorrence that so many people on both sides of the community, on both sides of the Border, felt about that.
Mary Robinson was an old friend and colleague of mine, and still is, I think. As President of Ireland, she was not able to interfere directly in politics but she was able to express in gracious, clever and subtle ways what the Irish people were feeling and, in giving that expression, she really did a service to the people of Ireland. In addition to what else we can do, we can give that kind of service.
I will not be supporting or voting for the motion for the reason I have stated, neither will I be voting for the Government amendment because it is a laugh.

Acting Chairman: The Senator is on a very long two minutes at this stage.

Senator David Norris: The amendment refers to a scoping review, into another committee for a look at it and we will circulate a report. I would be very surprised.
The Irish people will want the abolition of the Seanad. Pat Kenny thought he had got an interesting result on the radio today. If he had asked, “Do you want Dáil Éireann to be abolished?”, there would have been a 100% chorus saying, “Get rid of them”.